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25 December 2003 @ 12:22 pm
Thoughts with V*******  
V******* and I always have the most interesting conversations.

One topic from today is 'why aren't we married'?

The easy, throw away answer for me is 'because I just got unmarried'.

But that's not the real answer. No more than it's the real answer to why no one in really interested in me and I'm not asked out on dates. The real answer is *far* more complex. One reason is we are strong women who can and do take care of ourselves. This seems to be a turn off to men - don't know why that is. We have strong personalities and are very capable and very intelligent, which seems to always put us in the friends box (see below). We have drive and ambition. We have standards. V**, you will have to share your criteria with me. You are the second person in a month that has talked about having analytically considered the topic and set down a list of sorts - I will try to get the the list P**** came up with too, as we've discussed it aa bit. The men who we are interested in are never interested in us. We have a weakness for pretty boys, and as we all know the pretty boys are surrounded by the really attractive women. Why else are we not married? We are not easy, we are a challenge. We take real work and effort, as opposed to being an easy, throw-away type relationship. We are attracted to men who can keep up intellectually, and those are hard to find.

We had a chat at midnight on the way home from the airport about getting married and having children. And have differning opinions, to no one's surprise. I don't know that I'd want to get married again, at least not until I have my own 'stuff' - house, car, substantial bank account, etc. A safety net, if you will. Having had everything yanked out from under me (even if it was my own choice to get divorced, Tim was very good at setting things up so that my name wasn't on anything important), I cannot forsee putting myself in such a tenuous position again. I have to have my own things, my own life, things to fall back upon. I will never be put out of my own house and have no place to go again, and I will never put myself in the position to let someone do that to me again. Tim really screwed me over in that whole arena.

A further aspect of that is that if I had a serious, committed relationship or got married again it would have to involve a new place to live. I would not want to live in 'their' house. I never want to feel a guest in my own home again. Another security issue.

Another topic was that having intelligent, far reaching, intellectually challenging conversations with men automatically puts a gal in the 'friends' box, no matter how interested we may be in them. It seems to be an automatic death sentence of sorts, because in the end men don't want to have those sorts of things with the women they date - too much work? It's funny, because the men will *claim* they want to date intelligent, capable, etc. women. But I've watched it or been victim to the results time after time. In truth, men really don't want those things, they don't want debate, they tend to want pretty little girls they can take care of. So those of us who do those things are forever relegated to friend.

Things to be addressed further, topics for many more conversations.

-the redhead-
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Skittenskitten on December 25th, 2003 02:56 pm (UTC)
hmmmm..
I'm just as hesitant to say that ALL men are like this as I would be to say that all women are one thing or another.....

I think it's a shame that you haven't found the right guy yet but deciding they are ALL the way you percieve some of them to be is probably not going to help you find the right one...

Good luck in your quest *hug*
-the redhead-theredhead on December 26th, 2003 08:41 am (UTC)
Re: hmmmm..
You never use your journal to rant or to leave things to be addressed further in the future? You never put raw thought and emotion there? You never have in depth conversations with your friends to explore topics brutally and directly? Is every thought or conversation you have completely balanced with all sides of each issue addressed in a completely rational, realistic, and fair manner to all parties involved? You *never* state sweeping generalizations when venting?

Thanks for the pat on the head.

-the redhead-
Skittenskitten on December 26th, 2003 02:08 pm (UTC)
Re: hmmmm..
no of course I have- you are right....
I didn't mean it as an insult...
I just hope you know that not all men are stupid jerks.... that's all I was REALLY trying to say...
sorry if I offended....
Skittenskitten on December 26th, 2003 02:10 pm (UTC)
Re: hmmmm..
btw: I currently have a really good reason for expecting more men than I thought I should to be obnoxious jerks....
(Anonymous) on December 25th, 2003 03:10 pm (UTC)
From reading your past entries....it seems the truth is:

1. You bitter, self centered and childish.
2. You should work on these issues before trying to be in relationship.
3. Men pick up on the points in #1 early on and don't want to have to deal with it. While you may view yourself as intelligent, any other issues will greatly outweigh them and cause men to rightly run their lives.
-the redhead-theredhead on December 26th, 2003 09:00 am (UTC)
Such commentary is amusing coming from someone who regularly says 'It's all about me' and really means it. Who throws good people away because they tell him when he's wrong, when he's out of line, or because they refuse to kiss his ass all the time. Who admits that the rules he expects others to live by and the ways he expects others to treat him do not apply to him in return. From one who admits that the benefits to him wrt any situation or action are paramount because 'that's how a good salesman thinks all the time'. Might make you a passable salesman, but doesn't add a whole lot to your humanity.

You sorts of narcissistic, egocentric people are exactly the one's to avoid in life. But thanks for proving my points for me.

Are you still sleeping with that gal who lied to you about being divorced? Did you find a job yet, or are you still unemployed?

-the redhead-
Musings from the CZ unitcz_unit on December 25th, 2003 07:49 pm (UTC)
Hm. I'll think about this one for a bit.

As to why you're not married: Well, the throw-away might be because you just got unmarried, but a deviation from that one could be "because we were married to people who were unsuitable and we could not get along with"

Thus things went foom, and here you are. An interesting question might be why you dated/loved/married them in the first place. What attracted you, and why? What made you choose person X over Y in the first place? Deception? Mis-understanding? Or something deeper?

What did you want 8-10 years ago? What do you want now? Are they different? Same? Different facets of the diamond?

I'll think about more later.

CZ
Wolf: Teddywolfteddywolf on December 25th, 2003 08:36 pm (UTC)
You are not married because you do not settle and there is nothing wrong with that. At that I am reasonably certain there are men interested in you, but I suspect nowhere near all the interested ones fit into the pretty-boy look.
vewvew on December 27th, 2003 04:41 pm (UTC)
I am not married because I choose not to be at this point. I choose to love myself and take care of my responsibility.
I choose to be open to the possibility...
but I will not settle for just anyone... it takes practice and work to be in any relationship... and both people need to work at it... we have a 50 second world and this takes more than 50 seconds...

I am happy with my life... I have great friends and lovers...
if marriage is ment to be then it will occur... I have my requirements and I am sure that the "spouse" will have a list of there own.... some things can be negoitated... some things you will just have to live with... and some things are requirments... the trick is to know what each is..

blessings to your house...