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21 March 2003 @ 08:01 am
More notes to self  
- electronic communication is... stupid for other than work type information and 'hi, how are you?' type of stuff. Remember these limitations.

- remember that people rarely mean what they say, and that mostly they are just... something (?). So don't take it seriously - it's really only idle chitchat. It's like someone asking 'How are you?' Just smile politely at the quip and move on. How many people have said 'If I were there...' but what do you have? See, I know this but occasionally forget.

- people aren't as careful with words as I am, so it doesn't really mean anything (see above). Nor do they tend to consider how those words might be construed. Goes back to the Face Value versus Intended Meaning argument.

- don't be too harsh regarding not giving people the benefit of the doubt. But keep your own self-interest in mind too. It's a fine line to walk.

- three shall now be the magic number. Maybe four or five. Twice isn't enough anymore. Kinda sad but a better measure. Tho for some people repeating/asking something 3 times (or 4 or 5 - ref. Mom) doesn't really mean anything either.

- always Always ALWAYS ask people exactly what they mean by something if there is a question. It might make for cumbersome conversation and isn't very 'cute' or 'charming' or 'graceful' or whatever, but is safer.

- always err on the side of caution. I know this one as well, but it's another one that is easy to forget.

- be the Ice Princess - less disappointment that way. Self-reliance is goodness.

- if you make a fool of yourself, retreat. If others makes fools of themselves, try to ignore it.

- people rarely mentally reference previous communication while saying whatever they are saying, so don't factor any of that into the equation. Think in the moment only. Previous words don't count.

- remember that people as a whole are selfish and think mostly in terms of themselves. It's okay to do that for yourself too.

- poeple will mostly only do that which is convenient for them.

More to come...

-the redhead-
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-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 10:50 am (UTC)
Once again sucked into the void
Pay attention! If your first reminder is to *not* have such conversations electronically, then DON'T DO IT

*bangs head*

Part the first:


*****: Sounds like pretty brutal notes to yourself.
-theredhead-: ?
*****: (reading your LJ)
*****: so what's 3 the magic number of?
-theredhead-: ah - yes, notes to myself
-theredhead-: I've been messing with that entry on and off
*****: As I said, pretty brutal.
-theredhead-: howso?
*****: Sounds like you don't trust anyone, and have retreated away from something.
-theredhead-: what's brutal about preventing misunderstandings (or tangents or whatever you want to call it)?
*****: - remember that people rarely mean what they say, and that mostly they are just... something (?). So don't take it seriously - it's really only idle chitchat. It's like someone asking 'How are you?' Just smile politely at the quip and move on. See, I know this but occasionally forget.

*****: Very defensive
*****: always err on the side of caution. I know this one as well, but it's another one that is easy to forget.

- be the Ice Princess - less disappointment that way. Self-reliance is goodness.

- if you make a fool of yourself, retreat. If others makes fools of themselves, try to ignore it.


-theredhead-: but isn't it mostly true?
-theredhead-: (the chitchat part)
*****: No.
*****: And you know that.
-theredhead-: I'm not perfect and need to remind myself of how the real world works occasionally :-)
*****: - remember that people as a whole are selfish and think mostly in terms of themselves. It's okay to do that for yourself too.

-theredhead-: ummm - no I don't know that people really do mean what they say
*****: Not my belief, but then again this is a matter of opinion.
-theredhead-: okay - then what *exactly* were you thinking when you said 'come to *****' 'come to *******'?
-theredhead-: and why *exactly* did you say that?
-theredhead-: and what *exactly* did you mean?
*****: When I said both of those things it was with the full knowledge that I would probably be shot down. Esp since other people have invited you places as well.
-theredhead-: that's not what I asked you
*****: However it is quite true that if I was somewhere alone and wanted to take in a show, or go to dinner, or see a movie or just *CHAT* you would be the person I would like to have with me.
-theredhead-: thank you
*****: That is *WHY* I said that.
-theredhead-: and applicable if you were within a distance that didn't involve me stending hundreds of dollars.
*****: Because I would like to have your company at events like that.
*****: I am fully aware of the fact that it would cost you hundreds of dollars to do such a thing.
-theredhead-: to take you up on the offer - should have been 'spending'
-theredhead-: so, see *I* need to remember that it was probably meant in the same way that someone in town says 'hey, lets try to do lunch next week'.
*****: But that does not factor into the issue of *wanting* to see you or be with you for something like that.
*****: Hmmm........
-theredhead-: true
-theredhead-: so I'm correcting *my* interpretation of 'come to *******' into 'gee, wouldn't it be neat if...'
-theredhead-: 'if some magical thing happened and we were in the same place at the same time'
-theredhead-: hence, being notes to myself regarding reality
*****: Hm.
-theredhead-: 3 is the magic number because if someone mentions the same thing 3 times then they might actually mean it, as opposed to it being an offhand comment. Used to be twice, but that measure got broken lately by several people - so time to readjust.
*****: I see.
-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 10:51 am (UTC)
Part the Second:

-theredhead-: 3 is the magic number because if someone mentions the same thing 3 times then they might actually mean it, as opposed to it being an offhand comment. Used to be twice, but that measure got broken lately by several people - so time to readjust.
*****: I see.
-theredhead-: I think that these things all make sense, really
*****: In that light, they do.
-theredhead-: what other light is there?
*****: Perhaps the light that things aren't always black and white.
-theredhead-: previous.... errors can only be ameliorated if you learn something from them. Or at least try to learn something.
*****: Perhaps it's a way of saying "hey, how could we every get together" without going out on the limb of arranging everything in sight, having a ticket, car, luggage, room, and so forth readyu for you?
*****: Yeah, that happens to me a lot.
*****: "Arrange everything ** and I might drop by"
-theredhead-: did I ever once indicate that was what I thought?
*****: Feels like it now.
-theredhead-: In fact, I made mention of the fact that it would cost me hundreds of dollars - that would be hundreds of dollars for plane tickets, a show ticket, a hotel room, transportation
-theredhead-: food, drink, time off, yadda
*****: of course. So I shouldn't say anything unless I am prepared to back it up with planning, logistics, the whole nine yards.
-theredhead-: I am not those other people
-theredhead-: no
-theredhead-: fuck!
-theredhead-: *bangs head*
-theredhead-: all I'm saying is that I need to not take what people say seriously because often they are not
*****: ok.
-theredhead-: example - if you were not serious about something that involves logistics and cash on *my* part
-theredhead-: no wait
-theredhead-: you were playing the 'what if' game - I needed to realize that
-theredhead-: I need to readjust the filters to do that automatic translations
-theredhead-: so that I don't end up making a fool of myself again
*****: You didn't make a fool of yourself *******.
*****: You touched my heart.
*****: You told me "yeah, that might be nice"
-theredhead-: yes, I pretty much ignored it when you talked about *****
*****: But you actually looked into it.
-theredhead-: or, more accurately, I tried
-theredhead-: yes, I checked the date.
*****: Because you want to meet me.
-theredhead-: yes, I considered it for a few minutes - then pouted
-theredhead-: *then* I decided to just ignore it
-theredhead-: then (my new favorite word)
-theredhead-: then you.... alluded to? said? basically the same thing in a different conversation
-theredhead-: which made me, for some ... reason, think differently about it
*****: how so?
-theredhead-: because that used to be my bar - if people said something twice they might mean it *shrug*
*****: I think we're hung up on the definition of "mean it".
-theredhead-: bingo - you were playing the 'what if' game
-theredhead-: I already said that tho
*****: Maybe I do "mean it", but don't have the logistics to back it up.
*****: OK. We're playing the what if came.
-theredhead-: yes, now we are *both* playing the what if game
*****: /me wonders just what game you were playing.
-theredhead-: *bangs head*
*****: But I have to get ready to *******, so we'll just have to leave that for another time.
-theredhead-: yeah, whatever
-theredhead-: have a lovely weekend
-theredhead-: :-)
*****: *bangs head too*
*****: Why are we banging our heads?
-theredhead-: okay - so this is a new rule
*****: go
-theredhead-: I *refuse*
-theredhead-: to have anything other than chitchat if there is not the time to devote to it
-theredhead-: so please please do not ask me things if there isn't time to address them, or right before you go to bed, or if you have to run off
-theredhead-: I am *not* saying that those things are not legitimate
-theredhead-: I am *not* saying that they are not important things that you have to do
-theredhead-: what I *am* saying is that having half a conversation...
-theredhead-: ah - screw it
-theredhead-: nevermind
*****: No, I understand what you are saying.
*****: I'm sorry for bringing it up when I have to ****** as well.
-theredhead-: I'm just not going to do it anymore - period
-theredhead-: so if *I* don't think the time or attention is there I'm not going to do it
-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 02:42 pm (UTC)
Do yooouuuu unnerstaaaaan' the words comin' outta my mouth??
- people aren't as careful with words as I am, so it doesn't really mean anything (see above). Nor do they tend to consider how those words might be construed.

- always Always ALWAYS ask people exactly what they mean by something if there is a question. It might make for cumbersome conversation and isn't very 'cute' or 'charming' or 'graceful' or whatever, but is safer.


And it works in the other direction too...

Classic example of (*cue Rocky and Bullwinkle music*) 'Assuming Intent' or 'That's Not What I Said'

*****: Yeah, that happens to me a lot.
*****: "Arrange everything ** and I might drop by"
-theredhead-: did I ever once indicate that was what I thought?
*****: Feels like it now.
-theredhead-: In fact, I made mention of the fact that it would cost me hundreds of dollars - that would be hundreds of dollars for plane tickets, a show ticket, a hotel room, transportation


Glad to know I'm not the only one who makes this mistake...

-the redhead-

-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 03:05 pm (UTC)
-theredhead-: I think that these things all make sense, really
*****: In that light, they do.
-theredhead-: what other light is there?
*****: Perhaps the light that things aren't always black and white.


*sigh*

No, the world is not just black and white.

I do know this. Really I do. But sometimes it's all ya got... literally.

-the redhead-
Paladinpaladin3 on March 21st, 2003 11:23 am (UTC)
I think all of the above generally holds true when FORMING a relationship...I think the face to face thing is crucial as I've already said.

been burned in these scenarios myself. And I've burned a few people as well. I reached the same decision you did...that's why I treat every online female as "friend" instead of potential. I've offered several opportunities to come for a visit...but they usually seem to cautious and not interested.

Sparks are reflected back online. Sparks are visible only IRL. I think you're durn wise myself.

p3
-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 04:00 pm (UTC)
Sparks are reflected back online. Sparks are visible only IRL.

*nod*

Very good point.

Thanks

-the redhead-
Paladinpaladin3 on March 21st, 2003 05:33 pm (UTC)
hey...what are friends for? :-)

I'm sorry you got a bit singed...hope there wasn't a full-on burn...

p3
-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 05:43 pm (UTC)
No, and mostly of my own making.

But that's what happens when you reach for the flame, hmmm?

As you can see here, I'm having a bit of a lecture/debate with myself.

-the redhead-
Paladinpaladin3 on March 21st, 2003 07:30 pm (UTC)
If you don't reach out...there's no joy...and it takes a flame to melt an ice princess right?

Your internal monologue is fascinating and educational. Thanks for sharing it.

p3
-the redhead-theredhead on March 21st, 2003 03:32 pm (UTC)
-theredhead-: still might be worth going tho - it's like...
-theredhead-: ummmm....
*****: Well, let's meet there then :-)
-theredhead-: so it's not like you would be going to ******* *just* to do that
-theredhead-: oh! *was typing at the same time*
*****: just a thought.
-theredhead-: ummmm...
*****: actually it's oooooommmmmmmmmmmm....
-theredhead-: *rolls eyes* that's different
-theredhead-: sooooo
-theredhead-: was that you asking me out? *thinks that I'm prolly being stupid*
*****: yes.


Sometimes simple clarification isn't enough.

But where do you draw the line? When does it become... annoying? counterproductive? interrogation? When does it become too heavy handed and squish whatever is going on?

Balancing self-protection against everything else is hard.

-the redhead-
...has a headache now...